Bogie of Aryan Invasion Indic Talks Rewriting Indian History Sindhu-Saraswati Civilization

Indian Civilization: The Untold Story Revisited — A Talk By Raj Vedam

Indian history, or what we have been taught by way of history in India, has many strange paradoxes which are hard to explain to rational, inquiring minds. At the root of these paradoxes is the Colonial Ideological Offensive, imposed by British historians steeped in Biblical tradition. These historians simply could not come to terms with an established chronology in India that pointed to a far greater antiquity than their ecclesiastical mnemonic of the destruction of the world in 3000 BC during Noah’s Flood allowed them to believe.

That the men delegated by the East India Company to write India’s history came with a bias into the discourse and introduced distortions to force fit their Biblical canons is a fact many Indians are waking up to at long last. What a majority of Indians are still not aware of, however, is that the enterprise of distortion of Indian history continues unabated in Western Academia as they strive hard to find newer paradigms to uphold the debunked Aryan Invasion Theory or AIT.

In this Srijan Talk, Dr. Raj Vedam examines the claims supporting Aryan Invasion Theory and explains how new-found evidences do not support the AIT hypothesis. Respectable disciplines like Archaeology, Genetics and Archaeo-Genetics have thrown up artefacts and evidences that point to precision-oriented human activity in different parts of India tens of thousand years ago, and in some cases hundreds of thousand years ago. Additionally, the broad consensus among scholars points to the R1a genome having originated in India and not in Central Asia. There is no evidence to support the Aryan Invasion Theory, although there is evidence to support the Out of India theory.

In addition to expounding on a series of multi-disciplinary evidences that disprove the Aryan Invasion Theory, Dr. Vedam also makes a case for taking into consideration internal, indigenous Indic references that have been ignored so far. There is a vast body of internal evidences within Indian Literary Texts and Indian Knowledge Systems like the Vedas, Puranas and Itihasas that cite Migratory, Astronomical, Environmental, Engineering and Knowledge-Transfer related references among others which prove, quite categorically, that India is a very ancient civilization with a human continuum of very great antiquity and that Indian thought and knowledge impacted the East as well as the West from ancient times.

Transcript: –

So first of all thank you all for coming today. So it’s a pleasure to be back in new Delhi. I see some familiar faces from the last time I was here. So, really happy to come to the stock.

So… the talk has been titled as revisiting because the last time there a talk in New Delhi, I think Rahul made an excellent video of it, that got a lot of views on YouTube. So this year we are revisiting that to see what else is there in since last year narrator. So this is IHAR, in Indian History Awareness and Research. We are based on Houston, Bengaluru, Coimbatore, Columbus, Pune, Chennai. We are group of Doctors, Engineers, Vedanta scholars, Professors on Humanity and different professions. So, our goal in this work is to bring an different lens than what we are normally used to in study of history. Today, in history we have overwhelmingly social lens to look at history, humanities and so on. So we bringing the lens of engineering, sciences and the hard sciences if you will have, so let me straight away the jump into the talks.

So, last year I began the talk with the paradoxes in Indian history. So I have expanded on that. So, last year we said, we have something called an evidence based narration and present-day narration and our goal will be to try and evaluate where we are regarding these two things in a sense of pre-disposed it over there, the big cross mark there. But we will never. Let us go through these things.

So we know we are Ancient civilization positioned otherwise, knowledge producers positioned otherwise, strong Indic sources and references. But these are ignored, devalued, discredited. We have a continuity of civilization, but then there is an enforced predication in today’s history narrators, where we are told that there is something told Harappa civilization, we don’t know anything about them, we don’t know what they eat, what they look like, who they worship, nothing about them, even the script, and they isolate sitting out there with mostly links to Egypt and Sumerian things like that  and after that  Aryans came along and now we are Aryan civilization and what we are told, we have large period of history that have unfortunately have been erased, that not them in today’s history. This gals me!  We have hundred of Rishis and Indic works that are familiar with. Yet, well, sure with Jaimini , you name these Rishis. So many of them created enormous intellectual works, why are they not a part of a historical narrators? Are they not belonged to that land? Is their work is not part of the intellectual tradition of the land? So here we have major problem when the work of Rishis are completely ignored and forgotten and today’s narrators.

We have told that the Hindus social order blamed for poverty, but then, we are going to revisit this again, and talk about the invasions. This we dealt with the length last year about, how we are told that Indians received knowledge from Greeks, Babylonians. But we showed that Indian knowledge seeded the world. We are told that something called a Dravidian identities which has been manufactured in India as a dominant way that Indians look upon that is today, but we will see there’s no distinction in northern and  southern Indian, from evidence we have Vedic Sanskrit is one of the perhaps the oldest language that is still surviving. But there is a hypothetical Proto-Indo-European ancestor that has been created and this is how people talk about that Vedic Sanskrit has been derived from this ancestor language. Now the Rig-Veda talks about the Saraswati River which we know geologically dried up in 2000 BCE, but we are told that Rig-Veda only composed only 1500 BCE; a paradox. So there are 500 years after the purported drying up of the river, they seen to be talking about flowing rivers on the Himalayas down to the ocean. So we have problem there. Astronomy derived works dates that show great antiquity. However the Upanishads, Brahmanas , Samhitas are all dated to 500 BCE to around 300 CE by  the work likes of Max Muller, Weber and others .

We talk about these paradoxes last time that Indian culture impacted all the lands to its north, south and east. But, did not step one foot west outside Afghanistan, one more those very strange paradoxes of Indian history. So I would like to examine who was the guys who wrote our Indian History and why did they even do these kinds of things. So last year when I talked prior to that the untold story of Indian civilization, we are going to be talking about the mainstream narration along these lines and we going to see where the evidence is taking us and we will work our way, wait through some of these things.

So last year I called out William Jones, I called out Max Muller and Bentley and others and recently as guys as he wrote the early Indology of India and the reason why they did things, for example, I said that they were the product of the Anglican church who believe the god created the world in 4004 BCE and god destroyed the world in 3000 BCE, know as flood, and nothing could have survive the flood event. So these gentlemen they came to India and they were shocked when they found a norms chronology in Indian context. I saw bits of pieces in Vinod ji presentation. He is talking about the Puranic king list and these are some of the things that they encountered, they were shocked about where does the history began and where does that end there, seems no relation to the western history.

So they went about look up on an anchor point to see the where is the anchor point in the Indian history and this history, from Megasthenes work, they knew the somebody called Sandrakottos and so they phonetically tried to look at the list in the Puranic English and they chanced up on Chandragupta Maurya  and so the  Chandraguptha Maurya should be linked up to Sandrakottos. That is anchor point. Everybody very happy after that. But, then the problem is the Sandrakottos is talking about Megasthenes times is perhaps 300 BCE and Chandraguptha Maurya is dated to much earlier. So they introduced distortion in the Indian calendar by doing this false anchor points and then they went to the process of saying we know the Purana King list, got list from grandson of the Pandavas all the way to the Gupta Kings. But, they went about cherry picking king list from here, saying they are mythical kings we are going to remove them out and move some people from here to here and these things and to get a reduce the chronology and why they reduce chronology because the world view would not allow them to accept and enhance chronology. So we going to get the minds of these guys while look at what they wrote.

William Jones, he said, ”Either the first eleven chapters of Genesis are true… or the whole fabric of our national religion is false “. In this work over here, another place is there “obliged, of course, to believe the sanctity of venerable books of Genesis“

Max Muller: He says, “I look on the creation given in the Genesis as simply historical“. So these are the guys who had tasked by the East India company to write the history of India and this is the biases with which they came in to disclose for the longest time, Indian have been happy with the Puranas, they were happy with the Itihasa, our notion of the history has been to go to Sthala Purana and look at the temple epigraphy we know that the temple has been built at the certain period of time. We want happy with the notion of history. These guys came and started imposing a certain offence, we called the ‘colonial ideological offence’, where the distortion started and they became mainstream in a sense.

Today we live on the Marxist ideological offensive and these are the Doyens of this, the luminaries, Eminent Historians Bipan Chandra, Sathis Chandra, R S Sharma, Romila Thapar, Irfan Habib and many others control the roost today in communist outlook of the Marxist ideological offensive. This gentleman is S L Byrappa. If you google for Byrappa in NCERT, you will find a lot of works of his and NCERT is particular interesting  because he was on  the textbook committee of in the NCERT. He went to the chairman ask “Sir, Why we are distorting our history so much? Why we telling our children lies? Why don’t we telling the truth? Whether you like our history or not, we are good period, bad periods, tell them the truth. Why do you build history on lies”.

The chairman apparently told him something where as summarized over here, where the Indus valley civilization is disconnected from India and Hindus are made invaders or migrate in 1500 BCE. Suppose that leads to preamble the Hindu Jingoism that go on and saying that Muslims were invaders in India before they could say you two are invaders in India in 1500 BCE. Nobody there and no proof that any Hindu enter on saying these things. But unfortunately this will turn to preamble. Such situations, central narrator favored or rich narrators of history, minority sentiments privileged, invasive periods of Indian history is whitewashed and imagined atrocities of Indic rulers is manufactured. This even we are witnessed, when we review the  seventh grade text books in particular state, which by implication is also in NCERT, there is one paragraph that talk about Gazani and that chapters that one paragraph says Gazani came to India and he took the riches of India and he built a splendid capital in Gazna. There is one chapter on invasion period followed by four or five lengthy paragraph that talk about Hindu kings who supposedly destroyed temples, I have actually read and review and express my outage in the review that if they could write this. So this is very very true what Bhyrappa noticed, “to promote Marxist values a deliberate Hinduphobic narrative was made. Distortions, erasures, biases, errors misrepresentation are the hallmark of the current narrative that cannot build national identity, with such distortions, that is the bottom line. So once again we going to revisit the evidence because science buds very nature, keeps changing with new evidence coming every day. so we need to analyze where is the science taking us, what is that saying, this is something contrary or habit should we change our narrator because science has changing. We will revisit some of these things.

Last time we talked, we discussed these points, the Aryan invasion antiquity, Indian Civilization, the knowledge systems for Indians and we highlighted the absurdity of the present day narrative and now we will examine some of the later evidence and once again alive with these points. So just to quickly  refresh your mind the Aryan Invasion Theory,  every word hear is important, bands of male warriors from Central Asia invaded, migrated to India around 1500 BCE ever. Every word is important in the battle because it’s got to be band that can’t be a huge migration group. There is no evidence in genetics, it’s got to be male because the maternal mitochondrial DNA is not presented in the record. It’s got to be warriors because it is supposed got its steal outside in India and come on chariots  and do all these kinds of things. So, every word here is really battle rifle for a narrative, so effectively replace the existing civilization and brought an entirely new Vedic religion, Sanskrit language, Vedic ecosystem. This is what we told around 1500 BCE.

Last time we said how this is rooted in the quest for the western identity, ever since William Jones found the commonality of languages Sanskrit, Latin and Greek. The western people  are interested in knowing what is their identity and that quests has led them to once again study the narrative of along these lines. We talked about this linguistic analysis last time and  then we said that, basically what they did was took list of common words like Swadesh and took the list of common words in the language of interest and try to see how do word change from one language to another. As an example in Tamil if I say ‘come here’, I would say  “Inke waa”, in Kannada I would say  “Illi ba”. So, it, word changed slightly one to the another and there interest was to be knowing how do these words change, what is the statistical distance from one to the other. So the early idea is where on one extreme is India other extreme is Western Europe geographically and literally statistically. So they said there is midpoint Caspian sea and black sea, that’s where the language is started. So those were the idea with which they came about these Mythical, hypothesized language called Proto-Indo –European. There is no evidence at anybody spoke this language, there no evidence that it belong to geographical region, all these things are hypothesizes and then these things are suppose come from this.

So we are going to revisit some of these things. Last time we talked about this, how this fusion of linguistic and archeology in the quest of western narrator, we talked about Marija Gimbuta and Colin Renfrew. We talked about how she says expansion of language is happen in three waves with domestication the horse 4000 BCE – 1500 BCE and Colin Renfrew who criticized this narration and came about the Anatolian hypothesis in turkey, saying that once the agricultural was invented in turkey, the spared of agriculture is also impetus is for spreading of language whether it is a Dravidian. So called Dravidian and indo Aryan and all those kind of things each we talked about the kurgan /steppe hypothesis, to refresh your mind, 3500 BCE between the Caspian sea and black sea people called Yamnaya living here at the same time, that all over the world literally you have civilization over there 2500 BCE, there spread out the east, to the west and to the east cottage where Andronovo people 1500 BCE, the specialized Hittite Babylonian, Egyptian, Mycenaean’s and here BMAC culture, you see them enter in to Sind and in to Gujarat and that is the start of the Aryan invasion theory for us and by 500 BCE they have entrance to the Ganga plain and see the appearance of the Dravidian in the record over here. So this is what we talked about last time too and  we going investigate all of these things.

So, the first line of evidence I would  like to talk about is from Archeology and see what do we know since we talked last year in Archeology, that disgusting little more light, who we are, what is science saying, how old human habitation in India. How about 1 million years ago? Tools have been found in Tamil Nadu, in Science, in March 11, Shanti Pappus researchers along with these people and they found tools in Tamil Nadu dating back 1 Million years ago. How do they knew the date of these tools because they make use of something called Luminescence. Luminescence is the process where.., suppose you have stone which have got some iron specks in it; Right, Granite, it got some iron content it’s buried under the earth, the earth natural radio activity makes charges to accumulate the specimen. So the longer it is under the soil, the more charge it going to accumulate.

Now, when you dig that specimen and take it out expose it to sunlight, the reverse process happen, the charge start leaking away, so you could take this to a lab, calibrated and figure out the rate of discharge and you could figure out what is the age of that artifact. So using that mechanism Shanti Pappus and others are date to the artifact have 1 Million years ago. Here is an example of Hand Axe. The same One Million years ago, If you go to Haryana the national museum you can find this Hand Axe. So when you go next to Haryana go and take a look at it , you will see it over, have you seen it? ok. this is over there .

So the question comes what is science tell about the human species who are living One Million years ago. It turns out that’ science calls them as Homo Erectus. So this is the Artistic representation about the Homo-erectus, might look like the range was all over Africa as well as in India, south east China and South East Asia. Also they live in social group, used fire cranial capacity upper limit around 1100 CC, smaller than humans or homosapien, use stone tool about 70 kilograms, up to 6 feet tall I put the scale here, giving an idea 10 Million years ago what was the human fossils like. Why didn’t even look like Homosapien today, might look like chimpanzee or apes in that timeframe. Homo Erectus occupies this niche according to science from 2 Million years to 600 thousand years ago. That is why the science today is hold in the mainstream narrator, homo Erectus appear in to record 2 Million years to became extinct around 6,00,000 years ago, and these Homosapien occupies happens to tiny niche over here, 150 thousand year still know. So, just put the things in context that One Million years ago, tools were by apparently this specimen.

Then what happen is, a few months ago, this paper hit us. This is from a place called Attirampakam in Tamil Nadu, where they found 350 thousand years tools. Now science says Homo Erectus became extinct 600 thousand years ago. Genetic says modern man entered into India 85000 years ago, who was making these tools! Who was making these tools 350 thousand years ago? That is a question now. There is an open question, there is no answer here. The same the such Shanti Pappus and others so have been working on. This is an open question to figure out who are these people, where the Homo erectus or some other species? We don’t know or are they homosapien? It’s a very open question. There are some artifacts from there Archeologist talk about tools in two ways. One, is the tools that clasp with your hand right when you clasp the tool and through it, the another kind of tools is precision tool where you hold with your thumb and forefinger and chip away at you and make it sharper and sharper this is associated with larger cranial capacity. So normally they says homosapien, other ones make this precision tools.

All these tools were precision tools 350 thousand years ago, opening the question who made it? Homo Erectus are supposed to have a lower cranial capacity. So who made this? I put an outlier over here. This called Narmada man. It’s the skull that discovered in Narmada valley. 300 thousand year old, 1982 Dr. Arun Sonakia of Geographical survey of India. Initially he taught the Homo erectus come, then the French investigator measured the capacity and said it is up to 1421cm3 in the upper limb bone, which is  right where the modern Homosapiens cranial capacity is, the average for Homo Erectus was 1000cm3 in south east Asia, china and Africa. So the specimen is definitely larger than the so called Homo erectus and Dr. Kenneth the American researcher, these papers, he says, he should assigned the sample as an early homo sapiens. So the reason why put this is because last time, when I talked, I gave the impression that the genetic ‘out of Africa’. It is telling us a very strong story but science by its very nature examines evidence as it comes in. It falsifying earlier evidence. We need to change our narrative, seen where are we going with this? So with this, we have open as to the possibility that there is a continuum from Homo erectus to Homo sapiens and not a sharp cut of the way the science saying that, two Million years ago they appear, 600 thousand year ago they disappeared. Perhaps there is a continuum from that to here at least in India. That would be the conclusion at least looking at some of these things until we have better evidence from science and says at otherwise.

So from about 40 thousand years ago, these are the some of the homo sapiens artifacts all over India the Son valley, Beas Valley, Narmada Valley, all the River Valleys north, south, east, west., we got specimens’ we talked about this last time too. So what I am doing here, I going start from One Million years ago tools, 350 thousand year ago tools, 40 thousand year ago tools, going down time in Archeology. This is the paper we are talking about last time, antiquity 2009 by Ravi Korisettar and others. They talks about Jwalapuram 35000 years ago rock shelter, they found human artifacts and other things, we talked about this too last time Bhimbetka, Eddakal Caves, Ketavaram, Bhirrana, Ramachandrapuram, horse with rock arts, ancient fighting in Kerala, Rockart in Andhra Pradesh and in Bhirrana up to 10000 years ago urban artifacts have been found in this part of the world. Bhirrana, we know from 2750 years before, present all the way to the 9450 year, several Artifacts have been found in different layers is from a paper in ASI.

This one came very recently when a two months back or three months back, when a group of enthusiast, they sent of a drone equipped with a video camera over some place in Maharashtra and to the surprise with, they found huge art on the ground. That Art is so big that if you walk over there you can’t see the prospective; you can’t make out what it is. You need to go up in the air to see the prospective and some of these things are huge. If you look at this, it similar to the Nazca lines in Peru and Chile in those kind of places the very similar kind of rock art have been found in Maharashtra. So the one of the Archeologist is tentatively given a date saying it perhaps older than 10,000 years, that’s in line with what we know Bhimbetka, central India, that may be the antiquity of this Rock Art.

Dwaraka from episodes March 2003, we know, this group nationalized ocean technology, Chennai sent a ship equipped with sonar and found 9 kilometer long feature, 40 meter about to the sea level, they also found a piece of wood which they dated in Hyderabad as well as in Germany and they came back with the date of 8500 years or 9300 years, as before present for Artifact, which could also be the age of the settlement of the city wall, they found over there. This is the beautiful pot ‘Baluchistan pot’ 3500 years ago, this news came out pretty recently, may be about 4 – 5 months ago. Sanauli, Uttar Pradesh, they found chariots, barriers in pit graves, a whole lot of them. So the Archeologists dated it tentatively to an upper bound of 2000 BCE. We are going to revisit this again a little later. Beautiful Humped Bull with gold horns 1800 BCE, Sangam Era, we talked about Sangam Era last time, in Keezhadi, how does urban Artifact found in outside Madurai, about 20 kilometer about, outside from Madurai, some of the  Artifacts from there and we talked about the controversy with these too last time.

There to refresh your mind, I said the ASI dug up to 4.5 Meter, but they took the samples in the 2 Meter depth and sent it to Florida with Carbon dating and they came back to the date of 3rd century BCE and then this unfortunately may not true, because the question is what about this 4.5 Meter, that you are excavated. You find artifacts all over the place. So I said last time that, if the ASI reported 4.5 Meter depth of excavation, if you take the top layer as to 2018, let’s change a 2018, then 2 Meter down your carbon dated to 2200 years, which means every Meter depth is 1100 years linearly. I am an engineer thus what I do If you don’t  give me any  additional data, I am going to make a  linear approximation, I am going to say everything is linear and you have given me one data point. I am going to use that, extrapolate, interesting, until you give me better measurements until you come and give me a nonlinear measurement, such things. So first approximation go with that date, so every meter linearly corresponds to 1100 years, which means 4.5 Meter should correspond to 5000 years, before present, at that comes approximately 3000 BCE very very old data point sitting in southern India because may be conditions to believe that Aryans came Ganga Plains 500 BCE, chase the poor guys to the south, with their swords and whips and what not. So any Southern Indian settlement cannot be older than 500 BCE, according to the common narrative, if you find something in the urban settlement in southern India 3000 BCE, oh! what is going on here.

So I called this out last time, saying that ASI should reported a rage of Artifacts. if you got Artifacts from this top layer, middle layer, bottom layer that should have been more honest representation. We also said last time, that some politicking is going on the state is taking over pre credit excavations. The Archeologist is transferred from that to Arunachal Pradesh or some place like that and we don’t know, we have no clarity is the Tamil Nadu Government is doing it, the central government is doing it, we have no idea that there is too and flow much link is going on over here. But my belief is that they stop excavating quarry that time. I don’t know what is the future of the site. We talked about the Glass factory of Arikamedu last time where we said that outside Puduchery, Pondicherry. The Glass beads have been found there have been dated up to 300 BCE. However, the Archeologist excavated that, Vimala Begly, she said that in this diary, she had to stop working because she was under the water table and even a large pump could not keep water out. So implying that there are artifacts waiting to be found over there but she could not get it because of the technological issue. She can’t dig deep over there. So ASI today has covered up the Arikamedu behind this Roman wall you can see a coconut Grove that where  Arikamedu is.

This is one of those paradoxical situations this map, is from Chitra V. So on a map, if you place the name of all the places, named in epics, the Itihasas, you soon find that all over India and outside India Utharakuru and others we have the names mentioned over that. So the epics are deeply titled the geography of the land. However, they ignored the epics of sources of history, very unfortunate and we teach our children this, we teach them that there was Indus valley civilization, disconnected with India looking outside for trade and inspiration and come at 5000 years ago, decline 3.6000 years ago, and silence about any activity over here and giving children a wrong idea that there is empty land over here. So, very unfortunate way our text books are portrayed.

So that were the Archeological evidence, where I presented some new data talking that human habitation has been as old as 1 Million year ago and called into question the common thinking today at least that modern man come in to India from Africa around 85000 years ago, that is called into question because of the Archeological Artifacts, we are find there which seems to implied that is a continuum. So one of the open questions as of today, we don’t have the resolution the one way or the other.

So let’s go to the Archaeo-genetics and this is going to be a deeper talk than last time, I hope I can still hold your attention. So Archaeo-genetics, we contain records of mutations carried by all over ancient ancestors, mother side, father side, Grand Father, Great Grand Father., all these mutations. Because of recombination we carried this mutations ostensibly we can work backwards and we can say if I carry this genetic structure, how was this related to some ancient specimens. Theoretically at least we can address that problem. So today people use Maternal mitochondrial filed data, y-chromosome field date, Genome wide data, that’s new these days, Mathematical analysis, inference by mapping it to real world. Today the field is incredibly specialized and it has a multi disciplinary filed, in fact, this is the scope of work over there, this is the field work who goes out to this field, gets the a sample and things like that, the lab specialist who takes this, and process of the data on the lab, there is the Bio-informaticians who put the mathematical model on these things. If you are relating to the ancient sample to the current sample, what is the hidden mark of chain model?

Some other kind model, statistical model and all those kind of things the programmer who going to write all the c ++ code or something whatever the Bio-informaticians is going to do. There is an applied mathematician who will help you to converge the algorithm where the programmer is got no clue about. Then finally, here are somebody is going to interpret the results, may be the professor, who will take all the numbers and create a story and connecting it to social narrator. This field is so big, it’s rare that one person is, got expertise over this entire chain. So invariability, the lab specialists have no idea what this person is talking, this person has no idea what this person is talking, and this is the way it has. You might find some rare cases from here, and where the Bio-informaticians can do these three jobs and with luck it can also do this job. So the bottom line is, it is very specialized field. So it is rare to find these people. This is the reason why I am saying this, we will find at as we go.

Very quick, Biology lesson about chromosomes… We know that we have 22 pairs called Autosomes and one pair sex chromosomes. The mother bring in the XX, father XY, the daughter gets X 1 X from mother 1 X from Father. Son always gets X from mother, always get Y from Father. This is recombination of, we all know from the High school biology. This happens is the time of consumption the meiosis, where the mother content, fathers content replication cross-over and the recombination and the genetic material is share replicate and so on. So, this is the starting point for the mathematical work on understanding, how these things happen?

Before embarked on my India talks, I spoke to a friend who is a professor in IHAR bio chemistry, two hours I talk to her to try and understand the process well. I needed to understand is, this is the random process or does the biochemistry of the ovum and a sperm does, that have a bearing on the what is the genetic material that is exchange. After two hours, we came to the conclusion that, today science says is utterly random, there is no way that we can say which genetic content is going to be the crossover. However that is, that odds with our own ‘Garbha Upanishad’ and other such things that talk about consumption being with your past Janma’s Karma and others such thing involve, where you are going to,  there is a connection that, if you don’t understand, that has been exposed as randomness today.

So I prove this issue of randomness is a little further as a mathematician, I said, If I said, is every Genome is equally likely take part in the randomness and the answer was where over the crossover point are, where are these things are tightly held, they will not take part in the exchange, they will be tightly held, but some other part are more lightly than other part. So the bottom line – It is not uniformly random, but the segment in the DNA, where are more likely to participate others less likely. Bottom line is, that is a lot of assumption that may be to studies which are not bearing to reality. I am going to expose some of these things.

If I take a random guy from New Delhi, rather than take his genetic profile is not going to be any value. It is utterly useless however when I go to may be 1000 households or 10000 households in New Delhi and take that genetic samples, then paretic zones students scoring kind of things such a picture going to emerge. It will telling the pie chart, where 33 percent of Delhi carry this mutation, 25 percent carry this mutation as trace the amounts for some other mutation, such a picture will emerge for a population as  a whole. That is the whole idea. The scientist use this kind of pie charts to figure out and a mark as A, M, B and T, to give an idea how difference in genomes tell a story of human migrations. For example, the M marker mostly in India, and spreading outside the A marker, not in Africa, not in India, but outside the B marker only in Africa. So, these things help us and they tell us a story based up on the statistical majority of the genomes the people carry.

We can start a story, before 2010 it was incredibly expense to do any genetic studies. Only few laboratories and may be universities could do that because that was the price of that. Today the prices have fallen, we can go to 23 or somewhere for 99 dollars, you do saliva, they will give you genetic profile and all this things. But those days where very expensive plus prior to 2010 the computing technology was not as good as it is today. So they couldn’t do much of the genetic work, mathematical genetic work. They were like to do so, they were forced to work with the gender chromosome either the maternal mitochondrial DNA or the white chromosome, that was used primarily in early genetic studies to talk about the migration of humans.

How did human populate the world. MT DNA, this is the maternal mitochondrial DNA, is the early work figure out the, all these mutations we are interested in the M mark for India, mostly in India, in spreading out rest of the world and if you look at the colors over here, you see the purple color that goes some out this. It’s starting telling a story, right. It’s just by looking the color, you can tell us a story. There is difference in genome, there is infer in pattern, it doesn’t tell us the direction, but there is a movement that can connecting these two kinds of people. Similarly the Y haplogroups in the male and we are interested in R1a and R1b, R1a is mostly in India and R1b is mostly in Europe. Here too we can see the purple color, how it spreads over here, telling a story. So the last time that we talked about the   maternal mitochondrial DNA I present to the work of Steven E Hyman and I said that history can’t read that around 85000 years ago, group of people left India, walk in triangle part, generation by generation migrations, then we said 75000 years ago, this Mound Ova event that cause extinction of the human race over here, leading to less than 10,000 adults were left to repopulate the world.

All the non African people of the world are derived from the 10000 people who survived the Mound Ova event. Huge volcano eruption in Sumatra. Then, we talked about how the ice ages ended 65,000 years ago and the Neanderthals died out and humans from this part of India, they migrated crossed Bosphorus and became the future Europeans. Then about 45000 years ago, we talked about Indian from this part of India and this part of India Sumeria from Taiwan and other places they cross the Siberia, the land bridge became the future north and south Americans, this we talked about last time as the story of how human populated the world, as the function of maternal mitochondrial DNA. So this state of as understanding 2035 and so on.

Now, the maternal mitochondrial DNA is very stable and there is a reason for that of it. I don’t go into very great details, but it is not using the X chromosome of the mother, rather in the ovum, they find the mitochondria. It is the DNA of the mitochondria that we are tracking and that is very stable. It does not mutate very often. It is very stable, that is why the very stable story comes over here. This story could not address the Aryan invasion theory or the western identity problem. So people said, why don’t we look at the white chromosome, may be, white chromosome is got more resolution than the maternal mitochondrial DNA and so people start looking on the white chromosome.

So Peter Underhill, 2014, examine so many individual 126 population and he said, appeared Genetic record 25000 years ago somewhere in Iran, and one more thing is that,  if you want to talk about Aryans, you can’t talk use such an old mutations. You won’t have data with more resolution of timeframe of interest 6000 years. Two questions have become prominent, where did the R1a originate. Underhil says Iran, but is it damn story or other more people saying different things? There was a story today that the R1a originated in Central Asia and the Aryans brought it to India and the reason why you and I have R1a is because Aryans from Central Asia brought R1a to India. There is a one story or did the R1a originate in India and spared to the western regions. So address to the question, I took a look at several researchers  Basu (2003), (Toomas) Kivisild and others, Thangaraj (2010) to see the opinion on R1a. Where did R1a originate. So Basu says Central Asia, Kivisild says Southern Asia, Sengupta says North India, Thanseem says Southern Asia, South Asia, North Western India, South Asia, South Asia.

So even the consensus of some scholars appears to be that R1a originated in India and not from Central Asia. If you look at the studies of these people, so terms out the MT DNA and White chromosome are indicating an Indic origin. It says to validate the linguistic model, this is the result as of 2010. Then what happened? The super star professor came on the scene. His name is Prof. David Reich, brilliant man from Harvard University and he wrote his book that who we are, and how we got here. His book is got published sometime in April or May of this year and he said since the MT DNA and white chromosome are not telling a story, we want why don’t we look at the remaining  22 autosomes, why we are looking only the gender chromosome, list it to 22 autosomes. So let’s look at to the 22 autosomes to see this evidence of Aryan invasion theory or the identity issues. This is called genome-wide data.

On the other side, they do algorithm based estimation. We will talk about this a little later. PCA analysis I call out all of these things because this is my bread and butter for the last 30 years as an engineer. This is what I do for a living, I work with models. I do model curve fitting and I do analysis of that and as convergence all right algorithms. This is what I do and I know all the problems over here what are the assumptions that you have? what have you encode it in to study with assumptions, is your model appropriate. We saw how David Reich instead of using the obvious model use an abstraction. So right there your problem, how does a problem scale does it converge, what is initialization because a nonlinear problem where you start matters a lot, if it is only one solution, no problem wherever you start may be you will land to that one solution.

If the linear case, however prison nonlinear and admits multiple answers then where you start has got a great bearing on where you are going to land up that, is the nature of nonlinear systems so how do you initialize  that then there are some technicalities on the hessian and  other such things global optimality are you sure, you got the best answer I told you that a nonlinear system can admit multiple answers you get  “A “answer is it “THE” answer that is the question and then how many solutions are there because a nonlinear system can admit multiple solutions so you got one particular solution how do you claim this canonical or something so important. So I am calling out this thing saying just because convergence was obtained does not confer a certificate of correctness on your result, it is only a mathematical exercise where you take a model. Take some data do a curve fitting claim convergence that’s all it is, it’s a mathematical exercise, it does not confer any kind of correctness unless you can prove a lot of things about all of these things unfortunately we have seen circular arguments here and things like that, to give you an idea some models for admixture. Here is one model called continuous gene models they could be two ancient populations one and two and they create a hybrid with some percentage of genetic content and going into the next generation population. One does not give its genetic content, only population two, continues to give its genetic content ,you make hybrid this for example, could be the model in United States whether this is the black population in the white population and they mix make a hybrid, but because of their power structure the black does not mix. It is a white to continue to give the genetic content going down. So this could be a model over there graduate  admixture population one population to make a hybrid in some percentage and they continue to give the genetic content in future generations also that’s another model, model three is hybrid isolation population one, population two make a hybrid then they stop giving their content hybrid continues in generation one two three four by themselves, so even in biology you have many many models which model did he use for India admixture with Yumnaya, which model you use did you use this or did you use this, this is a question you have problems over here. If you say bands of male warrior came then I need to know if both populations made hybrid, when did they come and when did they give their content, we have problems there is no data nothing is available or if you say only 120 million people came in population 1and population 2 in the stop, that also needs to be called out and said this is what I am doing.

So we have enormous problems in the modeling phrase phase itself this is the issue,  I am going to give you a thought experiment in this thought experiment you assume that, there is an ancient population and you know the exact ancient population you had a DNA profile exactly and know the exact numbers in other words you say  I know all my grandparents who lived 1,000 years ago I know exactly who lived in this time frame, I also had a genetic by some magic I know the genetics, so these are the, let us  say this color, this color, this color, this color then several generations as recombination in this population, they are mixing marrying and all those kind of things at every stage assume you know the exact descendants, exact number of generations, exact paring who married whom, you know all that data then today you have this completely mixed up color, from these four colors a present-day population and here you know the exact descendants in the pool, only the direct descendants are here nobody else and you have that exact profile, even in this exact scenario to work out from this to go back to this to figure out, who inherited from whom and how much is something that we call a np-hardproblem. In computer science theoretical complexity the computational complexity is exponential. which means it is incredibly difficult even in the exact case to go backwards in the trees and work backwards and say how did these combination happen now let’s go to the non-ideal case. Let us just change one thing I know all these things, but I don’t know the exact bearings in the pool, I don’t know who married whom, it introduces one level of complexity. So here if you are working backwards now you have to search or all the possible pairings here over all the possible pairings then you work out to say, how does this map to that this is where  today you don’t know the ancient population you don’t have that DNA profile exactly, you don’t know their exact numbers, you don’t know the exact descendants, don’t have the exact number of generations, don’t know the who married whom, have don’t know the exact descendants , no idea if only direct descendants are here, you don’t have the exact DNA profiles either. So this is the model which people have today and it is this model that they are taking applying mathematics, giving you an answer and claiming to write these global papers with global claims about who came to India at one time frame and where, I hope I give you a flavor for the mathematical issues and technological issues.

I am deconstructing the research methodology and saying there problems everywhere you cannot take this results and start doing things. So the use assumes statistical models assumes parameters do some curve fitting this limited predictability with these things ,on the other side this is the admixture problem there is one more problem called PCA,  PCA is called principal component analysis in that analysis what they do.  If you have a matrix where this is geographical region 1 region 2region 3 for example you start from southern India say this village work your way to the north this village, this village, this village, village by  village you go and you take the different markers, you find out that generate profile and say 30% of them are carrying this marker, 20% this marker  and so on. You identify these various markers you are carrying and you have a matrix, if you do something called singular value decomposition, how many other engineers here some are engineers so you might have heard singular value decomposition somewhere in your past ,once you do this mathematical algorithm, it gives you a bunch of numbers called principal components. So basically David Reich is taking the largest principal components p1 and p2 and is placing these regions over here, which region, how does it fit in this graph over here and then he gets a gradient based on that gradient, he says the northern Indian population is closer to Central Asia southern Indian population is an isolate therefore he got the ANI in the ASI however what they have done to get a gradient is, in the southern Indian sample they have included the Andamanese, they included the Andaman DNA along with the southern Indian sample so that there is a clustering possible to create an artificial gradient, the Andaman is stop mixing the mainstream population 40,000 to 50,000 years ago why would you include them in today’s narrative of who we are even if you are  interested in5,000 year old data Andaman is, shouldn’t be there just simply shouldn’t be there, in the data so you skewed your data, skewed the numbers in your matrix, so that you will get a kind of a result that will do what you want to do. So whether it is admixture or PCA analysis I am claiming that one has got to do great diligence, why did you put those numbers why did you put the a Andamanese, why did you choose a model that ascertain argument. So many questions can be raised a good pure review would do all of these things, unfortunately like I told you is a multidisciplinary field nobody is got the expertise of the data span across this the guy, who is an expert in biology, has no clue of mathematics the guy who knows mathematics doesn’t know biology, so who’s going to peer-review these papers, so this is the problem the papers get admitted there is not sufficient peer review and all kinds of issues happen ,to close out this section.

I would like to give you one example, that talks about circular logic this from a paper in 2015 from California Berkeley in language, so these people went about the fuse linguistics and genetics, okay they wanted to say, let’s apply our no knowledge of linguistics and no knowledge of genetics and see whether some of our models of fitting including Aryan invasion and all these kind of things they took a dictionary of 200 words and they did this very strange thing all these, these are all the various people you can’t read it from there, but trust me you and I can read from here. So various people over here and these links over here say, how genetically close these people are to these people, so these black bars over here that is saying how close they are, for example this is far from here, this is far from here, these are very closely related. So these are ancestral constraints, the Clade constraints or black bars in addition, they also took time bars, time constraints, time concern, linguistic model gives you time, how old is Sanskrit. When did it diverged from some of the language, so Sanskrit, Vedic Sanskrit they put here to around 3,000  or some such thing the next closest to that is the Hittites ,Hittites are over here nobody speaks Hittite anymore ancient Greeks are over here, Assyrians talk Aryan and other languages are here. So they took the time constraints given by linguistic models and they took the genetic constraints given by people like David Reich others then let’s let’s now start a mathematical problem trying to see it as a model converge and say Aahaa! it converges, it observes, closeness to the steppe hypothesis unfortunately, the whole thing is a circular argument the genetic model is a circular argument, linguistic model is a self-fulfilling circular argument, the whole thing is an exercise in mathematics with no bearing to reality at  all, but these papers are published. So my conclusion has not changed from last year,  where I am saying that genetic studies uses preconceived models and markers and constrains results are not primary evidence, they can only serve as supporting evidence, one will have to see sensitivity of results to population size composition and assumptions just like I said last year what will happen. If I take a few pieces of data out and put some other pieces of data in how are your results going to change, as an engineer that’s what I do when my team comes and tells me that here is a model that is working beautifully I will do the diligence and say alright, I am going to remove this data out do the studies again is a conclusion similar, how robust is your conclusion if I took this pieces of data out and it converts to an entirely different answer that means your model depends strongly on these few data points, you see what I am saying so that is a sensitivity you need to study sensitivity then the composition, what is a composition am I going to take data from the IT park and Gorgon or am I going to go and say you better be living the same place as a grandfather for me to take your data, so that one and the size how many  am I going to admit, if I am going to talk the size of the Indian population am I going to take 1,000 brahmins and about 10 Shudras and something else and say I have got a genetic profile of Indians so problem that too what percentage are you going to take because of endogamy we have got some certain differences in us so what are you going to take. So all kinds of issues are there and you need to be careful over there, need to be careful and tempting aligned mathematical numbers alongside a narrative and avoid subjective biases to creep into the result the reason is like this ,like I said last time supposing after all this convergence analysis you go and give the professor you all your numbers, I got all these numbers this one is closely related to this, this one is closely related to that and the difference between this group of people and this group of people is point 001 and you say that point 001 is enough for me to differentiate these populations just a number, my question is how did he calibrate that why is point 001 significant in your data, you need to do talk to me about scaling you need to talk to about significance of the numbers before you come and say that this much resolution is enough to say this people are different from that, that is a problem in that ASI ANI model you had to put andamanese people to create an artificial gradient between North Indian and South Indian if you throw that andamanese DNA there is no genetic difference between the North Indian and South India I suppose a pastoral people so you see what I am saying one has got to be super careful when you do all of these kind of studies, so a good critique is going to go and check all of these things and figure out what is happening, before you admit some of these things unfortunately in our country the minute a paper comes from Harvard with 90 signatories in the paper or two thousand signatories in the paper its conflated in the news immediately saying, Aryan invasion proven and all these things. How are the journalist equipped to do any of this analysis, so we have a very very big problem next time somebody talks about these things I hope you will be able to get out there and report and basis of some of these things so like to.

Now talk about other evidence not fitting with the Aryan invasion theory hypothesis first thing is continuity of civilization this is archaeologists very revered man B B Lal  and he is worth India’s greatest archaeologist, he is alive even today 98 years old or so a very a gentleman. So initially when he found the painted  grave where and Haryana and he dated it to around I don’t know what thousand seven hundred  BCE or whatever and he came in so there is no evidence for, Ramayana Mahabharata he was a darling of the Marxist initially, later on as he found more and more evidence that seems to go against that he became an outcast  they no longer took his works, so he wrote a article you can search for continuity of civilization by B B Lal  there is a paper by him available on Google and he can read that so he shows in various things for example, the proto shiva   symbol, the swastika symbol, I went to Lothal a few years ago and with my daughter and we are walking and I find the bricks with the swastika symbol on that and I was so naïve, I asked are these bricks knew the pattern why would we put new bricks over here? both of the old Harper bricks and Swastika on them so even today go to  Lothal which is outside Ahamadabad  and you will be able to see the swastika symbols of those things, then he uncovered terracotta figurines which seemed to show the Sindhur symbol even today in India some married women wear the Sindhur symbol and here is an instance of cultural continuity of a tradition, you see that there is a tradition that has been continued from Harappa times  to present times that is, what he is showing over here then a figure showing namaste pose, namaste is a deeply vedantic concept that says the narayana in me, is bowing to the narayana  in you ,that is the namaste pose a  vedantic concept seems to be embedded in a terra cotta figurine in Harappa then. S R Rao another archaeologists he found a Shiva Linga in Kalibangun and S R Rao and B B Lal  found several terracotta figurines showing yoga asana positions, bottom line is there appears to be a continuity of ideas rather than a periodization it’s not that it’s an isolate called Harappa living here and then there is a Aryarns  that came here rather there’s a continuity in traditions continuity in ideas and such things, B B Lal  presents a  lot more evidence in archaeology ,sorry on agriculture and several other things, so I recommend reading his original paper to see this, here are some researchers who are all working on similar ideas of continuity of civilization dr. Srini Kalyanaraman, Raja ram, Shrikant Talageri, professor Subhash Garg, David Frawley, Conradls  kazanas lots of people are working on similar ideas of continuity of civilization here is a paradox.

We are told that Iron ages are ushered India by invading  Aryans in1500 BCE with it is N R Banerjee  1965 or Tewari in 2003 they talk about iron however this new site came out in 2015 and professor KP Rao he found several artifacts knives and blades in Telangana and he sent it off to a lab in Hyderabad for testing luminescence testing and the date was range was 1800 to 2400 BCE that is a date of iron in telangana and I just put the date as 2200 over here, so this completely invalidates the idea that iron was invented somewhere in Central Asia and they made swords and they were better than bronze age swords and they came in owe when the city civilization this is  a evidence that proves otherwise over here, other paradox we already talked about this, we are told Aryans brought horse and chariots to India and we are also shown if you remember David woods documentary on India he shows this chariot burial 4,000 year old  chariot burial in Georgia and he claims that because there is a chariot on the way to India on the way to India he claims that as how this proof that Aryans came to India however now you have not one not two, they found maybe 10 to 15 pit burials with chariots in them with Bronze Age weapons also in them. So that completely overturns this false thinking over here and here, also the Harappa bronze National Museum 2000 BCE this also dated to around 2000 BCE, this is a very interesting paper so this came out in May 2018 In current science from Institute of Palaeosciences in Lucknow these are the professors and they found evidence of paddy cultivation in the Ganga plain dating back to the Holocene era, so their dates comes to around 9,000 years ago but Holocene is actually from 12,000years ago this completely invalidates a claim that agriculture was invented in Turkey in 6500 BCE and spread to India because you are seeing paddy itself in India, in this timeframe according to this paper this is a very interesting paper, this is from Dr. Premendra Priyadarshi  he called this out this is in genome biology, I think in 2007 and the researcher there wanted to find out where is a genomic ancestry of all the house mice where is it from and to their surprise they found the ancestor of the mice in India and it goes back to 12,000 years so it’s from India to Madagascar India to northern Africa India to a Western Europe to China to southeast China Southeast Asia all these places it’s from India goes there why is it relevant because we know that mice go where there is paddy you store, paddy in your storeroom mice are going to come and as agriculture is going to the rest of the world nice camper along and go along With the paddy right so it is in very very interesting to correlate this data point and this research has got nothing  to do with this researcher and look at these two side-by-side and seems to say agriculture also was  invented in India. I look at the genome of mice it’s  studying a strong story, so once again we come to the same conclusion that we did last year there is no change in that with science having Aryan invasion theory is false, archaeology shows ancient artifact a predate the invasion period north west south central India we are seeing a human continuum for 1 million years at least in India genetic evidence of great antiquity of the Indian people, the M T DNA markers and R1a showed robust presence in India then I also put this box over here for this year to say what is our internal evidence is, it any internal evidence remember we are a secular people and we don’t consider internal evidence so anyway let’s take a look at what it says is there any support for migrations or any such thing and it says the Vedas and Puranas talk about the ANU and Druhyu these are Vedic, Vedic tribes and they are supposed to have migrated out of India and there are some people who say that migration was from Punjab to Gandhara  area this evidence is ignored this evidence is then Bhagavata Parana, Visnu Purana, Vayu Puranas, brahmanda purana, Matsya Puranas as well as Rig Veda all these verses are all talking about a migration it’s not just in one purana many of them are talking about it, but we don’t care about this right so I am bringing up the proposition if this migration would have happened around 9,000 years ago could that account for the data point that is seen in reached work. Where is saying that there is ancient farmer Iranian farmer DNA in India he caught the direction wrong maybe the direction is this side maybe that’s what it is and then later on the drying up of Sarasvati in 2000 BC or so resulted in outward migration we know  about the Hittites Mittani  who spoke it Sanskrit and so on Egypt the Hyksos people who supposed to have been isolating their culture till that the Nubians were there another such people suddenly these people appear on the scene and people are thinking they were Indians who went over there maybe this can account for genetic closeness to Central Asia in addition the four thousand years ago, will you see this genetic content there we can the direction is wrong maybe the direction of this way so I am just calling it out so maybe if I have access to the data, I as a mathematician would love to have a model that says out of India two time frames during the rig Vedic period and  during this period drying up of Saraswati and fit the data that we have I am willing to bet it will be a beautiful fit with no contradictions nobody does that because people are funded by NSF National Science Foundation and other such things they can’t give a proposal to such proposal that says I am going to have outlandish theory of out of India, so the only thing they can say is I am fitting it with the known PIE proto-indo-European theory and I am going to validate that that will get funded this is not going to get funded so researchers have got constraints too in what they take for these things but I really wish some Indic scholars will take this up and study this might show some very interesting things. So we Talked about this last time what caused a collapse of Indus Valley Civilisation if because we are told that invading Aryans caused a collapse we know it  doomed at your drought cycle, doomed it the monsoons failed for 4200 years monsoons failed for two hundred years, we have  evidence that once the monsoons failed the glacier-fed rivers gradually thinned out this evidence of that if you look at the internal evidence balarama’s supposed to have done civil engineering works to get water to Dwarka again there are circular people, we don’t care about these kinds of things but there is some evidence that there is a desperation in the people when monsoons at failed today in India  if monsoons failed so one year, a GDP will go down if monsoon fails for five years, I don’t know what is going to happen, maybe widespread famine would happen, inflation and other things that happen, can you imagine 200 years, 200 years of monsoons have failed so this would have called for dramatic measures of people’s civil engineering works desperation to get water, if everything fails you leave everything whether you live built a magnificent Mohenjodaro, magnificent shipyard at loath you leave everything and you go where water is you can’t take the buildings on your back, you leave everything and goes that’s that’s what appears to have happened in Indus Valley Civilisation. So last time we talked About poverty I would  like to talk once Again about this we are told that the Vedic system the caste system kept the lower classes to their positions without giving them access to studies and other such things and that accounts a widespread poverty in India that is what Marxist would like you to believe and that’s what has been pushed in the textbooks, like to see what will happen Angus Maddison  historical economist talks about the GDP of India thirty three percent as the world GDP in one going down to two thousand three up to 2003 you see it’s going through a period of decline over here through invasion periods, a small rise during Maratha consolidation and then the colonial is in a rapid decline fortunes of India when Western Europe goes up the idea from a mile high view is that, a transference of wealth from Indi,a into Western Europe caused poverty in India however this is hiding a lot of things. There are maybe hundred PhD thesis waiting to be written over here about the micro stories there are lots of  human interest bottom level stories, that is not told by this graph it everything is embedded over here first thing I like to call your attention to is, as an  engineer I love doing this let’s extrapolate backwards, let’s extrapolate backwards what is it telling you it’s telling you where you have take this graph at 33% and go backwards and time the slope is more and more, positive meaning that India was a very very rich nation in the past when I gave this talk in Chennai, I unfortunate that dr. Srini Kalyanraman he came to the talk he is a director of Saraswathi Research Centre and he said do you notice, if he pushed his graph all the way back to the Harappa times, we have one of the most rich people and all his works dr. Srini Kalyanraman  has been working on the wealth of ancient India, was based on metal works his research shows how there was a trade from Mekong Valley in  Vietnam, all the way to Haifa in Israel there was metal works which was going through the mekong river, Brahmaputra River ,the Ganga river the Sindhu  Saraswathi Indus and the land route up to Haifa and he says harappa people were the center of all of this action and they were experts at metal works they were the ones who invented bronze somebody over here figure out that you take copper and I had tin to it, it’s going to become bronze they were the ones who are doing metal works it is this that contributed to the wealth of ancient India here is an amazing observation that  Dr. Srini Kalyanraman  made  I thought I will talk about that.

Next thing I would like to talk about today if I take somebody from the streets of New Delhi and ask what are your aspirations he is going to say I would love to have a bungalow in the richest part of New Delhi, I don’t know what that is may be where gen path is somewhere a bungalow by themselves and then he said say that I would love to have an Audi Car maybe and send my children to rich schools and maybe take a vacation in Europe wears expensive clothes these are the aspirations and the money goes to all these various people, let me take the question back 200 years, 200 or 300 years ago you ask an ordinary Joe of the road what are your aspirations, he is going to say I would like to ask clothes to wear I like to have some pots and pans for my wife can do some cooking I would love to buy the lady some jewels  and ware some jewels these were the aspirations that’s I am  like to do. Who made all these things, in India who made the textiles, who made the pots and pans metal or earthen who made the jewels, it was the Potter to the ironsmith, it was the goldsmith, it was a farmer’s, it was a textile worker and who are these guys were the Brahmins? no, they were all so called so-called lower classes and the sugars the artisans were all this lower class and they were the ones with this 33% this is hiding that piece of data it’ snot the Brahmins who were the richest over there, it’s a so-called lower classes in India they produced every  group of interest for the economy so the economy is propped up by them and people wanted the Indian works that’s why it was a very very high GDP then we talked  focus on this rapid decline and see what is going on over here, so in 1700 the East India Company came to India and they left a lot of senses on the schools and other things in the records and Dharam pal went to England and he studied these things, I recommend the book “a beautiful tree” and he can download that and read it he is given a census of these schools.

So he says every village in India that had a temple, had a school also in it which means we had hundreds of thousands of schools all over India there are several thing that jump out at to you, first thing is why did India need so many schools? economy was like that, second thing he says what was a composition of the school he says more than 50% with the so called lower classes and a few more the forward classes here and there and Brahmins about five to six percent in each of these schools, next thing the Dharam pal notes a British asked about the model for the school who is funding the school is it the Raja and they found that, no, it is a local population that are supporting the school, so the people in that village would give a portion of the produce every year to the village temple and in return the priests would teach their children the farmers children the artisans children everybody’s children are thought and they would support the economy in a certain way, this was the model that is used in ancient India I have anecdotal evidence because my wife’s family also used to do that they had ancestral lands and a portion of the produce it became in to the Kanchi madam,  in southern India that was the practice they had for a long time till it stopped because of economics and things like that. So given that model I would now like to talk to you about a second anecdote, I am going  connect the dots I am going to give a second anecdote United States chanced upon a boycotted  think called the manifest destiny, it was thought to be the white man’s privilege from God the divine right from God because he must go back to story of Noah, and his sons ham and others ham was a curse son who was made to support all the other sons with that idea the white people said, we have God’s mandate to civilize the world, to control civilized world and they had a service that was a basis of slavery in the United States and for eradicating the Native Americans and all those things at the same period of time, the British took inspiration from that and we got boycotted law here called the doctrine of lapse. So alhousie brought the doctrine of lapse fully encouraged by this manifest destiny. You can read some works that show the connections between these two ideas over there, so this one says that, if a british protectorate dies without a male son and the british will take over that land that was a doctrine of lapse, like to tell you the story of Thanjavur how many know where Thanjavur  is a lot of heirlooms, everybody know southern India Tamil Nadu beautiful place Thanjavur has been the richest place in India for the longest time because it isn’t the Delta of the Kaveri River, the Kaveri River gave three paddy crops in a year because you have a very strong sunlight there and other such things three paddy crops on the riches of the Kaveri Delta, the Cholas, for example they built a magnificent Brihadishvara Temple.  Kumbakonam you go you find millions thousands of temples over there they built a powerful navy that should go to Southeast China and all these things it is because of the riches of the Kaveri Delta, the Cholas went up declined at some point we can talk about that later, why the decline, but that vacuum was filled in later on by the Vijay Nagar Vijay Nagar Empire came and protected this area from the Muslim invasions then with the Vijayanagar Empire fell the Marata rulers who were the chieftains on the Vijay Nagar they took Thanjavur, now approximately in this timeframe 1700 the French had landed it Tamil Nadu the French teamed up with Hyder Ali and they started attacking Thanjavur, so the ruler Shivaji II he took the protection of the british to chase away these guys, unfortunately the poor chap died with their son and the British annexed Thanjavur to a doctrine of lapse overnight the tax in Thanjavur changed from an enlightened 15 percent to more than 56 percent, to more than 56 percent that tax has changed when that happened the population could not afford to pay the tax, the farmers could not offer to pay the tax, the Vaisya could not afford to pay the tax, the system started collapsing once they could not afford to pay the tax. The British started confiscating, so who are all the people disenfranchised the Kshatriyas, the landlord’s,the zamindar’s all with disenfranchise was a British power grab the farmers and the artisans, Vaisya are all disenfranchised because the taxes the farmer could no longer give a portion of his produce to the temple. So the learning in addition collapsed in India and the Brahmin was all  out  of a job, in that period of time the British took the money from the taxes and artisan knowledge they didn’t have knowledge of making muslin or textiles or even steel at that time southern India “Ureka” is wood steel, you had that Bessemer was not invented yet, Bessemer was a driving process of industrial revolution, that is later.

So they took all of this knowledge including mathematics sciences and other things with the money sponsored the Industrial Revolution so Industrial Revolution ramped up and the  finished goods are forced upon Indians, suddenly Indians are buying goods from Lancashire ,Manchester and all these places and guess who was out of a job the artisans nobody would buy the artisans products anymore wide spread poverty all over India whether it is in the Brahmin class the Kshatriya class the Vaishya  class or the so-called artisan Kshudra class, everybody was impoverished by the British policy that is hiding here that is hiding over here, this is a reason why MK Gandhi came and begged people ware khadhi, don’t take foreign clothes because he was an eyewitness, he was an eye witness to the depredation of the British and was saying don’t do that, let’s protect our economy, our people that’s the reason why he said all of these things. So this graph over here like I said hides a law of things that we don’t see in a mile high view, I put that over here sun set on  India so farmers artisans we talked about that, British taxation collapse Industrial Revolution underwritten by Indian money and knowledge artisan classes impoverished by British manufactured goods and the next thing was at that time Macaulay came to the scene, Macaulay came to the scene and said let’s now distance the Indians from their systems, from the traditional systems and introduce English education system at that time who was there manage the schools the out of a job Brahmins out of job, Brahmins in order to eat and survive he became the school principal, school teacher, College if you see why they are disproportionately Brahmins over here the British favored them, because they knew they were the respected people in society, if they teach English may be the others will come and learn, with that purpose they favor the Brahmins, over here and missionaries like Cadaver came turned around told the Dravidian you see the Brahmin he is a reason for your poverty having created poverty they turned round and told the confused classes that the Brahmins controlling access to education, to jobs clerical systems and he is the one who has been keeping you down. So the circle is complete the bigger tree the greed the avarice and everything the circle is complete this is what the British did in India all that is hiding in everything I wrote over here British education system collapse, traditional learning disconnected people from roots missionaries further the divide taking advantage of large poverty to turmoil in the country, you cannot go from here to here without severe psychological stresses you cannot, anybody who goes from that point at this point has got enormous distress, that is going to show up in the society in one way or the other society can become insular you can say us and then may start happening you may want to have your distance from somebody else maybe all the perversions of the so-called caste system that we are seen could have arisen, because of this kind of a distress in the society, so like I said this is hiding many many things over here, yes, so China was also going through British things the so-called opium wars and other such things, the British are attempting to control the Chinese, control the trade over there there is a reason why Hong Kong and Shanghai were the british outposts ,so they were trying to control trade over there hence yes from from west Bengal, those areas yes yes to control that, and that is very important data point that’s a very important data point because the British in textbooks we are told they introduced land reforms, what they did was they went to the Zameendar  and said that 90 percent of producers ours, ten percent is yours so landlord to maximize the ten percent increase cash crops opium, indigo and other such things and there was no food grains, that is why the famines in Bengal other such places because of British policies and I didn’t tell the last part of the story, when thanjavur became impoverished like that the only option for those people was to walk all the way to Chennai because they couldn’t even offered bullock carts and things like that and go and sit on the dogs in Chennai like that waiting to be picked up, as an indentured laborer in Trinidad ,Tobago ,Mauritius ,Fiji ,Malaysia in all these places they are waiting to be picked as indentured laborers, if today you are wondering how come in these West Indies in other places our two populations the Thamiliyan and the Bihari why, because these are two places the British did this, these are the two places the British did this , these are the poor descendants of those people and there is the reason why there is the power impoverishment they caused the mechanisms that I told you about that is the reason alright so let’s move on. We talked about Will Durant last time, so I am not going to say the same thing but he also observed that Indians are taxed at two to three times the cotton rate he also observes this in his book case or India he also talks about the national debt about in 1860 how does half a billion by 1929 when Will Durant left India how it had risen – excuse me 3.5 billion and so enormous the poverty that they had caused, this is a researcher who who talked about this in November 21st 2018 just one week back or so in live mint there is a doctor Utsa patnaik, she says a British siphoned 45 trillion dollars from India in contrast with what Will Durants estimate was 3.5 billion in 1930, she says the overall from 1765 to 1938 is 45 trillion a couple of coats from what Utsa patnaik ,she says this virtually no increase in per capita income between 1900 to 1946 no growth at all absolutely, no growth and she says per capita annual consumption of food grains went down from 200 kgs in 1900 to 157 the eve of World War II  and further plummeted down to 137 kg by 1946 this statement poignant statement is hiding a lot of reality, all the famines are hiding here all the malnutrition is hiding here, infant mortality is hiding here, every decimal indicator of British colonial India health indicator is hiding here, this is all because of what the British did. So it is a very very sad thing what happened over here I am willing to bet that, almost everybody in this audience, if you go back to your grandfather’s time or your great grand for this time, I am willing to bet there with dirt-poor I am willing to bet they didn’t even have proper clothes to wear or good food to eat I am willing to bet, that because that was a story all over India very few Maharaja classes the most of us were in this muck with the British left is it so .

So the first thing to talk about is precision, precision is a phenomenon that the earth is doing under the gravitational action of, the Sun, Moon, Jupiter and possibly Venus under that gravitational action, the earth while it is rotating this is pointing to about 23point 22 and odd degrees in the sky in the northern hemisphere rotating once in24 hours west to east, going around the Sun once in 365.24 days but under the effect of precision it is also doing a slow circle in the sky, that takes around 26,000,years a very very slow precision cycle, so today we are pointing at Polaris is our Dhruva but Yajnavalkya  when satapatha brahmana and 3000 BCE ,through on this Dhruva at that time for him and there was a time, when Abhijit  was the pole star Vega once again 12000 years from  Abhijit will be the polestar because of precision  then the Indian astronomical model so the Indian astronomical model was one of nakshatras and Rashi. Every day the Indians observed that ancient Indians the moon would appear in the eastern horizon at a different time and therefore in a different backdrop of the stars everyday different time, they also notice it is taking approximately 27 days to go back to the same phase, so they divided the entire ecliptic into 27 segments and each segment is 13 and 1/3 degrees and these were the nakshatras for them, so it’s not enough to divide it you must also recognize it, so in order to recognize I said what is the principal brightest star in each segment of the sky and that will give the name for the nakshatra ancient Indians were adept at pedagogy, they knew that if they give dry facts it’s very tough to remember, that’s why the most of the Vedic verses and everything are very short process very very short process to remember. So the ancient Indians brought the story of King Daksha, King Daksha had 27 beautiful daughters and he married them all to Chandra and every day Chandra would visit one of his wives and that became the lunar mansions and then nakshatras encode the name of each of the moon’s wives and there’s a story behind each of those things, those stories are encoding astronomical wisdom and through that we know what what different things are, so these are the different nakshatras that you see ancient Indians also observe the concept of a month. If the full moon appeared in Citra nakshatra that month was called Chaithra  month, yes sir Rohini was very close to Chandra there is a concept, yes it does it does it does I have it in a different presentation and I need to stop this presentation go there but I will tell you that because my thinking was to tell you about that, so and I will come to that just remind me, if I fail, I will come to that story, so Chaithra  month if it’s an in full moon is Mriga sira  there is a  Margasira Month, so this way ancient Indians had the concept of nakshatra for the day and the lunar month they had both of them. So these area listing of the nakshatras in two of our ancient books Vendanga on the jyothisa, Surya Siddhanta and the principal star associated with each of these nakshatra how this mapping happened when the British came to India, they are Pandith  what is that nakshatra when the Pandith said the name, they said we call it this name that that way colonialists were able to do the mapping between the nakshatras and the Western identification, so we talked about this last time if somebody says Rama was born in Chitramasa, it means the full moon was in Citra nakshatra because that month is Chaitha  month and 180 degrees away is the sun  in Asvini nakshatra because the Sun is 180 degrees away the moon is over here, so we know that Sun is Asvini  when the moon was in in in Citra nakshatra. So just by saying Rama was born in Chitramasa  two pieces of data jump out at me, if somebody says Varsha ritu to began in Asadha masam rainy season, it means full moon is Asadha Nakshathra, sun is in Punarvsu Nakshatra 180 degrees away but today’s India rain is when the Sun is in the Orion, Orion is in Mriga Nakshatra. So there is a two nakshatra difference and that has happened because of the same precision, we can compute the precision rate 26,000 divided by 27gives you how many years per nakshatra, is it going to recess and there is about 960 years so 960 times 2 gives approximately 2,000 years ago the statement was true and that’s one Kalidhasas Megadhudha this is how astronomers are able to take a measurement and then decode it without today’s understanding of precision and other things and do this so this shows several things, I like to point out this one at the center here is Dhruva is a polestar and whenever Indians talked about nakshatra it is always when the moon appears in the eastern horizon, what section of the sky is it so last night 28 at 11:30 at night the moon was in Maga this is the maga nakshatra overhere, so therefore from yesterday 11:30 onwards it is a Maga Nakshatra, so today it might slip to the next one which is I think this is purva Phalguni, so today’ nakshatra might eventually go into purva Phalguni probably, we still are  Maga you may want to check in your Google and see what’s today’s  nakshatra that’s a reason why I would like to point out several other things Saptharishi, that  is over here Saptharishi goes around Druwa that’s, a Purana story right and you can see that happening here, like the point at Abhijit these circles over here are projection of the Earth’s latitudes and longitudes on the sky so they become celestial coordinates this is celestial North Pole 90 degrees 80 70 60 50 40 30 20 10 and zero, zero is the celestial equator on the day of the equinox the Sun is exactly in the celestial equator then for six months the Sun would appear to go north and north towards the North Pole for six months up to twenty three point two degrees then retracts south and south, and south and go up to minus twenty three point three degrees this is ultrayana,  the  dhakshinayana. So ancient Indians knew about the solstice points the extremer and they could measure how long the Sun takes to go from one point to the other and they got it exactly at 365point two four odd days this is how they measure the solar year in addition, so we got the solar year they knew then nakshatra then you the lunar month and the lunar year and they were able to add the concept of  Adikamasa because to get the synchrony between the lunar and the solar calendar they knew every four years five years or so they must add AdiKumasa, that will bring things to synchrony. So our ancestors were experts at understanding the night sky, understanding the movements of heavenly bodies and making sense into a calendar trying to make sense of lunar  solar  calendar making sense of all of these things plus in addition they had equations mathematics to do all of these things today, when somebody says all of these things are in Jyotisha Sasthra, Pavlovian response people say oh it’s horoscope I don’t believe in all these things so it’s a very pathetic indication of where we have landed up today however for the ancient Indians this was very precise Sidhantic mathematics lots of mathematics had talked about the equation of motion of Venus equation of motion, of Venus of the moon equation of motion of Mars they knew all these things, they are able to estimate constants of that they were able to estimate when that transit would happen, when occultation would happen, when would an eclipse happen what will be the duration of the Eclipse all these things are able to compute because they did not only planar trigonometry, planar trigonometry means on a plane they did circular trigonometry spherical trigonometry they were able to do, that so this is the kind of things our ancestors have done and all is hiding in this little thing, so when an Indian ancient  will come out to the night sky just look at the sky he will be able to tell you exactly which nakshatra, what is going on and all those kind of things today we are lost ability so we can’t do this. Kali yuga talked about this earlier, rare planet conviction of Saturn Jupiter Mars Venus mercury Sun Moon and Ravathi Nakshatra the reason why we need to understand Kali Yuga is Aryabhatta gives us rage with respect to Kali Yuga and temples and Karnataka and Bdhami  in epigraphy, they talk about the age with respect to Kali Yuga if you don’t know what this means you can’t date any of these things. The British came to India and they decoded this as 18 February31 out  to  BCE and it instantly caused some heart burn it caused, some heartburn if you remember, the first thing that I said about Noah’s Flood 3,000 BCE in their worldview they could not admit that you have a chronological data point that goes beyond Noah’s Flood this was a data point that caused all the problems in the British mucking around our chronology it started over here, so  that this was found by them at 18,3102 BCE simulated this in the calendar in my planetarium software and what you see is this is the ground line over here and you see that Revati nakshatras here Mangala is here sun is here Chandra is here, shukran is Venus is here, guru Jupiter is here, Buddha and mercury is here, Shani’s sitting out there it spread over a couple of nakshatras but the least-squares fit appears to be in Ravati  this did not happen for more than 26,000 years there was a clustering 6600 BCE, but that was in a different nakshatra, it is not in Ravati, in Ravati at least for 26,000 years this did not happen. So with great precision we can say that kali yuga perhaps is this one as described in Arya battya and  Surya Siddhanta in that tradition this is the star.  Mahabharat vana parva  has a dialogue Indra and Skanda contesting in Abhijit nakshatra, Kritika Pleiades went to Vana, summer solstice the summer Abhijit slipped down the sky british jumped up on this to discredit it, and said that here is an example of ridiculousness in Indian text that he can’t trust them, they are unreliable, they are talking about unphysical thing, then P V vartak  said that it is encoding anastronomical phenomenon, he said it is encoding a time when Abhijit  was a polestar, it was a polestar approximately fourteen thousand years ago and by the time the Mahabharata war was written down, it no longer was a pole star it appeared to have fallen in the sky, so it appears that there was cultural memory of Abhijit  being the pole star passed down generation by generation until such time Mahabharata was written down and appeared that it was no longer the pole star, that appears to be encoded then Kritika at  summer solstice happened 24,000 years ago a very staggering amount of time that is encoded in some of our measurements the implication is Rashi’s have probably been observing the skys, for more than twenty four thousand years that is, what this is telling us 14,000 years ago simulated this and you can see Abhijit is over here at the pole star point in the earlier graphic of somewhere over here what appeared to have fallen in the sky but 14,000 years ago it’s a Polestar satapatha brahmana it has a statement that, Kritika never swerves from the east again an intriguing datapoint written by Rishi Yagja valkya  you know today he was writing a manual for the Vedic practitioner, if your guest is coming from that door your door is over there I can’t do namaste over here, it is very very disrespectful the guest is coming there I need you to never stay over there all the Vedic homas were done for Agni or Surya and so they needed to point to where is he going to rise the sky I need to put my Vedic homa up it over here the bricks I need to arrange and so I face acne as soon as it comes and start my fire and start the ritual that was the idea Yagja valkya  wanted to tell the practitioner, where is the east direction if I ask some body here there is Easter they will say oh well the sunrise that’s east direction unfortunately because of Utharayana and dhakshinayana Sun seems re-track more and more to the north then more and more to the south so where is the east direction it’s not here, here, here here, here ,here and here it’s not the, Sun is pointing to east only on the day of equinox on the day of equinox, it is exactly the true east direction. So there was a period of time when yagna Valkya wrote satapatha brahmana and in his time Kritika was pointing through that, because it was on the celestial equator, this is the celestial equator Kritika is over here,  therefore he wrote Kritika never swers from the east you can light your fire under Kritika,  that’s what he wrote and that refers to this knowing this, so this is the ground line vedic practitioner would have got up when to still dark then a ritual bath come outside and looked at various kritika are still dark in the sky Kritika over there then maybe about half an hour or one hour later Sun rises and Kritika is out in the sky, but sun is there Kritika is a straight line, you start putting a bit that is the idea. So this is true for plus minus 100 years around this timeframe approximately still true so amazing data point that shows a Vedic concept in place much before the so called are in invasion.  Taittiriya samhita (6.5.3 ) talks about Kritika, the winter solstice that works- 8 9 to 1 BCE one more of those ancient data points sitting over there, conclusion from here is that dates preserved and brahmanas and Upanishat show very great antiquity.

Kali Yuga dates shows a Vedic concept In place before the alleged are in migration and this evidence of great antiquity of Indians backed by archaeological finds – today we have In Bhirana urban finds up to9,000 years ago. So the dates that we find in archaeology, also supports this it was not true some time back but today it is more more true now let me go back to the question you asked, you asked a story from the Puranas, you said that the Puranic  story says, after Daksha had married his daughters to the Chandra he heard that Chandra favors Rohini more than the other wives and he was furious with a son-in-law how can he favor one of his daughters and not treat them all equally, so he curses Chandra and says that you will fade and die and Chandra runs off to Mahadeva and he prays to Mahadeva please protect me and Mahadeva  grants him a boon, and says that you will not die, you will fade and fade and fade and become dark and again you will grow that’s why even today in Mahadeva ,you find the symbol of the  moon that’s remembering that story, so what is the story all about that is the question well I did some studies on that and  I had a TED talk on this, he searched for my name on a TED talk you will find where I discussed this when in relation to decoding the stories and some of our Puranas, so it turns out that when the Sun is going, sorry, the moon is going on the ecliptic, it sometimes comes close to a principal star and sometimes it fully covers a principal star, okay, sometimes it goes over sometimes it covers it, when it covers it from our view, if this is the star and this is the moon from your perspective the moon is covered the star, that is the idea this is called a lunar occupation. So I did a study of how often does a lunar occultation happen with all the principal stars of the nakshatras, it turns out that the principle stars are divided in the ecliptic, ecliptic is a line on which the Sun Moon appeared to go, so from the ecliptic how many degrees away are the principal stars that is a question If the nakshatra star is greater than six degrees from the ecliptic it will never be occulted, if it is between four degrees and six degrees it will experience a cluster of, I think I forgotten the exact numbers it experiences a cluster of occultation,  let me just say that one huge cluster of occultation, in a four year period or four years you will find that it’s clustered that if it is less than four degrees then it will have two sets of occultation ,separated by a period of time that is what it is, then I try to find how often are the various nakshatras occulted by moon, turns out that in this four year period ending in this year 2018, 2014 to 2018 Rohini which is Aldebaran, was a occulted  56 times, 56times by the sun, sorry, the moon and the next nearest one was Krithika , Krithika occultation ended in 2009 or 2008 that time frame and there were 24 occultations, 24 occultations with Kritika  and about 56 with Rohini and it will repeat all over after 19 years, after 19 years once again you will get a cluster, of four years get occulted  and nineteen years of silence , so ancient Indians had observed that there was such a phenomenon happening over nineteen year period, more many nineteen year periods comparing how often does a moon visit his wives and finally, figure out that he likes Rohini more than the others. So that astronomical wisdom is encoded in a Puranic  story, a romantic Puranic story which we remember today it is so easy to remember that Chandra loved Rohini but we all lost the key to unlocking that wisdom, so my research in the TED talk showed that it is basically this phenomenal  and there is encoded over here the occultation phenomenon, so I hope that answers your question.

Okay so coming, how old is the Indian civilization, this has not changed much from last year genetic shows the ancient people living continuously 85,000 years, agoarcheology now shows artifacts from 1 million years ago, and astronomical observation shows artifacts from 24thousand years ago, so very very ancient knowledge or rather evidence of antiquity in India like to conclude with Indian knowledge systems, I would like to show there is no conflict of knowledge with the philosophy of the land, this Is the theme and what I am going to talk about over here and we will explain that in a few slides, last year also we talked about knowledge systems Sruti, that which is heard Vedas, samhitas ,brahmanas Aryankas,  Upanishads for example mantras, hymns, prayers commentaries and hymns and rituals, rituals philosophy these are all the contents of these ancient texts and thus Smriti,  that which is remembered Vedangas  all grammar meter Astronomy ritual, Rituals Itihasa   these  epics   Puranas Kavya,  sutras, Shastras of various schools of philosophy, the Nibandhas  lots of things were present in India such that anybody could find intellectual expression within the frameworks, that existed in the country with absolutely no conflict with the philosophy, we live in a strange world today where science is in conflict with a dominant religious system of the world the Abrahamic systems cannot accommodate science because of the history centrism, so over here Darwin came about saying theory of evolution and instantly the fundamentalists went on a warpath saying that, no how is it possible, we didn’t descend from that God created man, in his image, which means we look like God and perfectly we cannot have descended from apes. So it caused great ruckus and outrage of them and even till today in United States there are states for example Louisiana where they used to stamp on the science textbooks that theory of evolution is only a theory, I am not joking even during Genthals time, even during the so-called enlightened Genthals time, they are stamping on that, in the history high school history textbooks to tell the children beware what you are learning is not true. So such things are there but in India we never had a conflict of science and technology and is a sorry sign and philosophy and there is a reason for that, if you look at this one, one-line descriptions of the Indian schools we talked about this last year too. Nyaya said all knowledge is not intrinsically valid most knowledge is not valid unless proven truth exists whether we humans know it or not Aksapada  Gautama was a Rishi who had said that Vaishshika  perception inference Rishi, Kannada Samkya systematic enumeration rational examination Kapila, Purvamimamsa talked on reflection consideration profound thought investigation examination discussion Rishi Jaimini talked about that Uttaramimamsa  or Vedanta up to ten schools and Adi Shankara one of the exponents of advaita and you can see that the Indic thoughts admitted, a lot of mechanisms for knowledge these are profound statements over here very profound statements that admit the the process of knowledge gathering if you look at this slide the means of knowledge of Pramana, in the Indian context you could look at perception inference comparison analogy postulation derivation from circumstances negative proof or sabda  pramana relying on word of experts and you will see that, every Sampradaya in india only differed on under what authority are you admitting knowledge, that was the basis for example a Charvaka the traditional atheist  in Indian context the only admitted perception, if I can see it it’s true otherwise, it’s not, I reject the way there is no such things and the Buddhists they said, only perception and inference nothing else is valid as a mechanism for knowledge this is what Buddha did right, he went through a process of players and tribulations and realized some truths that’s what he said Vaisesika  similarly starts admitting several other things over here Dvaita the Jainism and Dvaita  takes from every school that you can see over here, so what is the bottom line today we live in a world where if you are doing your Phd thesis, for example maybe Electrical Engineering you are going to say that I refer to this, I Triplee  Journal on the authority of this man who published in this journal, I am going to write my  Phd  thesis, I wrote this and reference, number one, number two and a literature survey this is what you do you are relying on shabda pramana of some professor over there or maybe you are going to say this Nobel Prize winner said this on the basis of that, I am going to do my work I am referencing this man on his authority, I am writing my work so this is the way we claim knowledge systems today on the authority of somebody else, who did something else in ancient India you can see it as a much more broader context and understanding the sources of knowledge, what is a valid means for knowledge and so on today you have boycotted  narrator in the Marxist textbook that I pulled the Buddhist, the James and others out of the Indic  dharmic context. However the only difference of sampradaya is, what is it that you are admitting as knowledge that is only difference everybody in the dharmic tradition believed in Dharma, they believed in karma, they believed in reincarnation this bedrock was there for all of them, the only things that differed was what is knowledge and how am I going to admit it, that was the only difference and this picture over here summarizes a lot of Indic philosophies and knowledge. So it’s good to know what is the goal of life if you ask a Hindu what is the goal of life the Hindus goal of life is to dispel  Avidya  from our minds, about the true nature of who I am and this dispelling of avidya might happen in one lifetime or across multiple lifetimes depending on my Karma this is our understanding so the Indic formula has been to dispel of avidya  and to gain  vidya  and these are all the mechanisms for gaining knowledge, to gain knowledge of your true self to understand, there is no separation between creator and created to understand. we have part of the cosmos to understand that’s only ego and our attachment to the world of objects, that prevents me from understanding the same narayanas  in both of us these kind of ideas of Vedanta are all encoded when the Hindu is urged one-line statement, who is a Hindu what is your goal life to dispel avidya  about my true existence that Sachidananda there’s a state that, I need to go into, that is the idea of a Hindu in the Abrahamic tradition the goal of life is to follow a divine dictated law so God gave the Ten Commandments to one of the prophets and the goal in life is to  follow those Ten Commandments or Christ set certain things, that his followers the Apostles the Gospels they wrote down what he said and if you believe that he died on the cross for your sins and he is only way to the father is through the son then you are saved, either you go to heaven or eternal damnation depending on the falling of the law similarly the Muslims also, if you believe that Muhammad the Prophet, he heard from Archangel Gabriel, who dictated the Word of God to him and if you follow the Quran injunctions, then maybe the mercy of Allah, you will be saved or you will have eternal damnation. So the goal in life for Abrahamic people is follow divine dictated law none of this is relevant, none of this is relevant because knowledge or any such thing is irrelevant your only goal is admission to heaven or eternal damnation, those are the only two things and the only formula is you follow a divine dictated law. Where as in the Hindu ideas it was you dispel  avidya about your existence and that will happen, based on your karmafala, based in this lifetime or across multiple lifetimes depending on the kind of life you live and at every life time you are enjoying the pond depending on which sampradaya are born into to admit certain knowledge based on these things, okay. So this is all I wanted to say about knowledge systems about how every knowledge in India whether it was mathematics, astronomy, philosophy whether  it was grammar, prosody ,music ,medicine you name it everything coexisted with the philosophy of the land, everything was embedded in the philosophy of the land, everything gives citation to Brahma, this knowledge came from Brahma, Brahma thought it  aswini, aswini started It to maybe punerva kshatriya or to Bharadwaj, Bharadwaj  give to somebody and so on. So every knowledge in the Indic context goes back and says Brahma gave us knowledge is it . I don’t want to go there now,  what but  will come back to that ,we will come back to that, so yeah you are right what what is Brahma over here the concept is important, Brahma is seen as a symbol of the Creator, he is a person who calls upon creation Srimad-Bhagavatam talks about that, he calls upon the creation depending on pralaya and so on.  So he is the one who is supposed to do that, we will talk about in the Q&A maybe a little later.

So last time it talked about evidence of knowledge outflow of India so this time I just put it into high level headings, we already talked about many of these things don’t want repeat it, but when people say if you claim that knowledge went out of India, which is contrary to what. People like David Pingree and others are saying that Babylonians thought Indians, the Greek thoughts Indians and knowledge came into India , we were very good students but we never were teachers according to the narrator of the west, but however I am claiming something else the Vedic records of migration for example that Shrikant Talageri, if you read that 3000 BCE or soul appears that knowledge from India might have gone out to the west ,we talked about Saraswathi  Indus climate changed induced migration 2,000 BCE getting out of India, if you listen to my talk on antiquity of Indian medical systems on YouTube, I have talked about how Ayurvedic  knowledge the echoes of Ayurvedic acknowledge is there in the Hittites, Mitannis, alamides and Egyptians and so on so, in this timeframe a lot of contact with Indians is there ,the Mycenaean’s are the Greek people and every Greek story has got a parallel with an Indian story in the Puranic Story, how is it possible, so this is the pre Homeric period so around 1000 BCE. So I am claiming there is contact from that time itself with India, which is why does these things, evidence for these assertions internal evidence of Vedas, we talk to Anu and Druhyu  correlation with climate change records appearance of sanskritc people Middle East,  echoes of Indic thought in this cultures, strong parallels in stories of astronomy and  so on and travel by Greek scholars to India we know about Pythagoras, we know about Democritus, we know what Piron, we know about all these people because in Greece there was a tradition knowledge is not completely go to India, Ethiopia, Egypt get knowledge and comeback so there was a tradition in those countries to travel to these places and come back.  3000 BCE to 300 BCE all of these are the routes then after Alexander, he left behind several kingdoms over here facilitated knowledge exchange from Mediterranean lands, from India to Mediterranean lands. Silk Route was a third mechanism all over Southeast Asia to China from India, all the way to Mediterranean lands we had trading ropes and this was also the period of Buddhist time, with the Buddhists we are taking knowledge for example Xuanzang or  Faxian all these people came on the Silk Route they came to India through Thakshasila on the Silk Route into India.

I would  like to give the example of the borel manuscript, borel manuscript is the oldest extant manuscript of Indian medicine, that is present in the country, today it is written on birch bark document and written  in Gupta Brahmi script because in Gupta Brahmi script, we can talk about the age of some of these things and it seems to have several things, it talks about the Rishi  Kshatriya, talks about Parashara and other Rishi’s and it has got Bhela Samhita, it has got portions of Charaka Samhita, it has got the dosha as it talks about Vatha , pitha , cafa also talks about Raktha  dosha in some places, so this document was found in Kashgar somewhere over here Kashgar  Jian province and it was given to a British officer called Borel, that’s why it’s called borel manuscript and the fact that Indian knowledge was in a trade route is proof that even Indian knowledge was carried along with trade people to rest of the world that is the evidence.

We talked about paralysis of Eritrean sea, there is a port sailors document the Roman sailors have come from Mediterranean lands, cross the land bridge over here, go wherever there is water navigable, they trade in all these ports and west coast of India, and some on the east coast of India, during this time also we know about knowledge exchange Muslim transmissions I talked about that last time won’t go into great detail but all the way from Sindh up to Spain through these land Arabia,  Egypt, Algeria, Morocco up to Spain there was transmission of Indic knowledge, translations of Sanskrit works were made into Arabic,  ever since Ben Carson came to that part of India in 711 the works like Charaka Samhita , works like Brahmasphuṭasiddhanta. So many other works are translated and given rather taken away and injected up to Spain, then we know that European church travelers from10th century to 19th centuries they took knowledge directly from India and to Europe then this knowledge I am showing during Greek and Roman time Indic knowledge ceded their cultures, however when the Roman Empire became Christian they destroyed all that, Constantine 300 current ERA adopted Christianity of the state religion and his successor Theodosius, he went on a rampage basically allowed the destruction of all the so-called pagan institutions that was a time the new converts started burning down the libraries the temples and other such things in Greece in other places all the indic knowledge they had stored there, was destroyed when when the Christians went on the rampage during this timeframe. However some of that knowledge has survived in  Roman lands not loosely connected with like Syria, Lebanon, Israel these places it’s Surveyed and this knowledge was inherited by the Muslims, who also took knowledge destructively from India, so people like Al biruni they have got the Greek works and that studied that then they came to India studied Sanskrit and he was able to study Sanskrit works, so they are able to do side-by-side comparison one of the first scientists today we are lucky we live in the era of Google where we can take documents from anywhere in the world do compared to study but in the ancient times you have to go to that place and copy the document, otherwise your knowledge system was routed over here, so that multi-regional knowledge systems I think the Muslims were very lucky so that’s why you have people like Al-Fasali, Al-ghazali and so many other  scientists ,who took Indic knowledge and made great advances in the time frame, you can look up a place called Baghdad- House of Wisdom if you Google for it you will find how Harun Al-Rashid, he was a caliph, he instituted that in Baghdad and that promoted Science and Technology in those lands, in contrast the same period of time and later the Delhi Sultanate and the Mughal period they never invested in science and technology in India, they were completely given to vices and other such things using the money but not an economic productivity and saving science and such things. So whereas the Muslims in Baghdad were scientifically oriented the Muslims in India were fundamentally oriented. So there is a different things that happen in India, so this knowledge by the Muslims was injected into Spain where during that period of time there is a translation School in Toledo, whose only job and Christian Toledo was a translate Arabic text into Latin. So we know of Gerard of Cremona who has translated eighty-seven Arabic texts into Latin as all hem included Indian texts, that are translated into Arabic and now translated into Latin that is how Western Europe which was under the clutches of the church backwardness, poverty, illiteracy, and disease that was the state of Western Europe ever since they became Christian the dark ages from three hundred current era  all the way to fourteen hundreds or so, this is a state of that nation and at that time in Western Europe did send the eldest born son to India, sorry to let Muslim Spain to learn they did go to Spain and learn at the feet of the Muslims to learn because Muslim knowledge is superior to their own knowledge systems, so this is a time when Western Europe was ramping up on the Indian knowledge you should also remember this was a time when Western Europe was using the Roman numerals, we have evidence that Hindu numerals and positional  arithmetic and zero, did not become widespread in Europe until the late 1500s, it’s only after fifteen hundred’s it became popular, earlier than that they were using Latin Roman numerals and how much can you do with Roman numerals, just imagine adding deploying huge numbers, you can’t do that so that’s why they are sciences technology was backward ,you may like to read a book called, universal history of numbers by Georges Ifrah so he calls out a lot of these kinds of things, then at a time when Western Europe was finally able to take over even the Muslim lands basically Ferdinand and Isabella. So they were the ones of the Pope’s blessings and other Christian armies they were able to go and conquer Muslim Spain they were able to take the Spain back of Christianity they went through a period of Inquisition, the Inquisition was seen to cleanse their society of Muslim influenced, Jewish influence and these things and anybody found in possession of Muslim knowledge was seen as taking knowledge from Satan and he was immediately either killed or forced to recant and all those kinds of things there, so this resulted in all the so-called Renaissance scholars hiding their sources they wouldn’t say that they got that knowledge from Indian texts or Greek texts because they were all seen as coming from Muslims so there is huge problem in society at that time but at any rate Renaissance is supposed to have happened a flowering of so-called European thought unquestioningly obeyed and listened to wires today without criticizing and the colonialists 16th century 20th century Portuguese, Dutch, French, British they also came to India took a lot of knowledge and all that has come back to history repackaged and without citations and our people start thinking that, oh my goodness these are people who are gone all the way to Jupiter, look at the computers look at their mathematics, where are we were a superstitious lord backward presbyter but we don’t realize where did it come from, where did this come from, where if the philosophy come from, where the knowledge systems come from, where the medicine come from, where the numbers come from, not one of us are equipped to question these because our own education system has made us ignorant that is a tragedy because we don’t know what our ancestors did, we don’t know that we are the inheritors of this knowledge unfortunately.

So here is a paper that I wrote in waves 2018 you can download this, the free PDF, this talks about the selected contributions of India to knowledge systems I given several particular references more than fifty to sixty references are there, so you can see particular knowledge systems that have taken. We talked about this Spanish Inquisition ,knowledge from Satan and savage retribution ,Renaissance, scholars hit their sources passed off their Greek and Indian works as their own original works however because their works on astronomy, math, medicine are all predated  by Indian and Greek works and the ignore citation, I call them plagiarizing. So this conclusion has not changed from last year the same conclusion this still call them plagiarizing. So here is the grand conclusion of this talk so we started on the premise that we are revisiting last year’s talk and revisiting with the evidence that we have and see we went through a lot of new evidence that has come since last year and we are still in a position to say the main stream narrative was utterly boycotted, it’s wrong, there is no Aryan invasion theory, evidence shows an out of India Theory, evidence shows Indic thought impacted east and west evidence shows that, we are a very ancient civilization, Indic thought seeded the Greeks and the Babylonians rather than borrowing from them, finally we did a deep dive into poverty and we can now fully well that invasions are responsible for widespread poverty in India. So thank you for your support, thank you very much for listening.


  1. Arun Mishra 3 years ago

    Please put some light on banking systems in ancient India and How Raka Kosha were used for economy of people.

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